How an Orthodox Jewish Atheist Became a Follower of Jesus - David Shapiro

He was raised in a devout Orthodox Jewish home where reverence for God was expected, but the grace of Jesus was unknown. As a child, he battled dyslexia, humiliation, and violence—pain that hardened into anger and shaped him into a professional fighter and, eventually, a committed atheist.

But even in the ring, God was pursuing him.

Through a series of unexpected encounters, conversations, and moments he couldn’t logically explain away, he came face-to-face with a truth he never imagined accepting: Jesus is the promised Messiah… and the Son of God.

This testimony is raw, thought-provoking, and deeply moving. It reveals how God redeems not just a person’s past, but their mind, identity, and purpose.

Today, despite once struggling to read, he now teaches, writes, and speaks so others can discover the same truth and life-changing grace that transformed him from a fighter… into a servant of Christ.

If you’ve ever wrestled with faith, logic, Scripture, or suffering, this episode will shake you—and strengthen you.

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Link to connect with David Shapiro:

Website

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Transcript

Israel Caminero: 0:05

Before we jump into today's episode, I just want to take a moment to thank all of you who've been listening, sharing, and supporting the Living Testimonies Podcast. Your love, your prayers, and your encouragement truly keep this ministry moving forward. If you haven't already, make sure you like, share, and subscribe so you don't miss any of the powerful stories God is using to touch lives. And if the podcast has blessed you, I want to encourage you this year to share it with just one person who might need hope or encouragement. You never know how God could use that simple step to change a life. My goal for 2026 is simple: to reach hearts in places we haven't reached yet. New communities, new listeners, and people who desperately need to hear that God is still moving. With your help and with every share, we can grow this ministry far beyond what any of us could imagine. Before we begin, I want to speak a quick blessing over you, which is found in Philippians chapter 4, verse 7. May the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus. I pray this episode brings you hope, strength, and a fresh reminder of God's faithfulness. Now with hearts open and expectations high, let's step into today's story. Welcome to Living Testimony, stories of faith and redemption, where we share real stories that bring glory to God. I'm your host, Israel Caminero, and I just want to say thank you for tuning in today. Here on Living Testimonies, we believe that no matter who you are or where you come from, your story matters. Because when God steps in, everything changes. Today's guest has one of those stories that will stop you in your tracks. David Shapiro, welcome to Living Testimonies. Can you introduce yourself to the listeners and share a little bit about who you are and what God has you doing right now?

David Shapiro: 2:12

Thank you. Absolutely. It's a pleasure to be on your show. My name is David Shapiro. I am a pastor, chaplain, author, and speaker. I live down in South Florida. And God just has me uh right now I'm I'm in a season of really blessed to just be able to do so many different things with different people, uh counseling people and pastoring people and being parts of groups and uh truly an exciting time right now that God has me going through. So it's uh definitely blessed to be part of his kingdom and journey.

Israel Caminero: 2:46

Amen. And as always, he's here to share his testimony. But before we get into his story, I'd like to open up in prayer and say, Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time together. Lord, we ask that your presence fills this conversation. May every word spoken here bring you glory, touch hearts, and remind someone out there that you're still saving, still healing, and still revealing yourself today. Bless David and every listener who's tuning in, that their faith would be strengthened through this testimony. In Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen. Amen. So, David, let's start from the beginning. Can you share a little bit about what faith looked like for you growing up?

David Shapiro: 3:26

Absolutely. Very different than it does today. I was uh born in New York. I was born to an Orthodox Jewish family. So I went to Hebrew school and I went to Schul and I studied the Torah, and my entire childhood was based around the Jewish faith and the Orthodox Jewish faith. So it was uh very different than how I how I am today. Uh you know, I should also say that growing up, my first few years of life, uh, one, my my father was very abusive. Uh, and two, I actually was raised, I'm dyslexic. So I wasn't able to read very well. So then when you start adding in Hebrew and Hebrew school in the Torah, uh, I was not a very good student. I wasn't able to comprehend things very well, and that was kind of the the start of my journey of not sure where I fit in. And it was really interesting because as an Orthodox Jew, uh, I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood and all my friends were Jewish, and I went to a Jewish Hebrew school. Uh, and I, you know, went to temple, but I just didn't feel like I belonged. And I remember going to temple several weekends with my grandparents, and uh, you know, I'd stand next to my grandfather and he'd be reading, and everybody in the temple just felt really connected to God. And I have a had a reverence for God, uh, but a zero relationship. I just felt like everybody there had this connection that I didn't understand, and I did not have that same connection. And I started doing things like uh as not a great student, I would put a note on the Hebrew school door saying that school was closed today. And I'd go home and tell my mother, hey, you know, school's closed, and there'd be a note there in case she wanted to go and look. Um, I just tried to do everything I could to get out of the uncomfortable situation I was in of not connecting to God, not being able to read his word, and just feeling like I didn't belong. So that was really my religious experience from the time I was born until I was probably about 15 or 16 years old. Uh I had my bar mitzvah, I did all the things I was supposed to do as a Jewish boy. Um, just the connection wasn't there. And and school, when I went to secular school, I learned about science and I learned about all the other things there. And at the time, I it didn't seem to connect with religion at all. And I said, Well, I'm not feeling anything from God, so he must not exist. And it's just something that people do to feel better. And and I started believing in the secular world of just science and facts and history and what what I thought was the right way to live and the right way to view the world. Um, and I kind of went through life for you know a long time that way. I went through, I think the way a lot of people do that don't believe in God, which is, hey, I'm a good person. If there's a God, I'm a good person, I'm sure I'll be allowed into heaven, but I don't really believe in him. And, you know, I'm just gonna continue to be a good person and and everything else I don't have to worry about. And that's that's how I live my life uh from that point on, and really just fell into more atheism, not even agnosticism. I just really became an atheist and said, you know, there's no God, and uh, you know, I'm going to just live my life how I want to live it. And that led me into uh the military and professional fighting, and that was my kind of my middle years, and and you know, we can get into that, but that was just you know, that was kind of my my childhood experiences with religion.

Israel Caminero: 7:06

So you said you became an atheist.

David Shapiro: 7:10

Right? I did.

Israel Caminero: 7:13

So were there moments when you sensed God trying to get your attention even as an atheist at a young age, or no?

David Shapiro: 7:21

Absolutely. So here there are three different points at which uh as I look back, I think not only God, but Jesus specifically was knocking on the door. Uh one of them was when I was real young in my neighborhood, uh, the neighborhood started to change. So it went from a very Jewish neighborhood to it started to become uh a mix of different people and populations. And people with a cross started wearing a cross, started coming around, and I wore the Star of David. And I just remember looking at the cross and really liking it, not even knowing what it was, uh, just liking the way it looked. And uh, I know a lot of people, they, you know, when they talk about uh Jewish people and why don't they believe in Christ and things like that, you have to remember that, especially in the neighborhood I was in, it wasn't as if they said, don't believe in Christ. We just never even heard of him. Right. It wasn't something taught, nobody said anything, nobody mentioned him, there wasn't anything about him. So when when people started coming around from different um religions, I saw the cross. I was like, man, I really like the way that looked. Didn't know what it represented, I didn't know anything about it. I just liked the way it looked. And it was the first time I think he just kind of piqued my interest. Uh, but that got quelled very quickly because, you know, again, not knowing who who Christ was, all I heard at that time was, well, Jesus is the Christian God, and Jewish people killed him. And I'm like, all right, well, they're not gonna like me very much because I'm a Jew, and if I killed their gods, then I'm not gonna be really liked by them. So I just kind of kept my distance, and that was what I thought when I was young. And uh the second time he he appeared to me was in the military. And uh I joined the military, and when you are when you enlist, you you hold on to something higher power than you. Uh you you need it. You're in some situations where it is uh life and death and stressful, and a lot of times people in the military they become very religious. And I remember going to Jewish studies and I didn't feel anything. Same thing as a kid. I'm like, man, I really I still don't feel anything. This isn't true, this isn't real. And I remember that they handed me a Bible and they call it the Bulletproof Bible. It's about the size of the palm of your hand, and it fits in your shirt lapel pocket. And they call it the bulletproof Bible because there are stories of troops who, when being shot in the chest, it went into the Bible, saved their life because it didn't go into their heart. So they called this the bulletproof Bible. And I never opened it, I just put it in my shirt, and it became something that I needed to have with me to feel safe. So the second time he reached out was was his his, it was the New Testament and Old Testament. This was the Christian Bible that I carried along with me. Everywhere I went, I needed it in my shirt lapel. Um, and then the third time was my mother. So my mother is a Jewish woman, and she had gotten terminal cancer, and the doctor said, Hey, you're gonna die any any time. It's gonna be months, not years, because it's very aggressive. For 10 years, they told her that. So for 10 years they said, Listen, you're gonna go at any moment. And uh she struggled through it, and then the week before she died, this Jewish woman accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior. And I had no idea why. I don't know where that came from. And if I thought about it in terms of, well, if somebody was gonna die, they're gonna latch on to whatever, but she was supposed to die for 10 years. Why a week before she actually passed, did that happen? I think again that was another time where Jesus was just calling out and saying, Hey, you know, this is this is something you might want to look into a little bit. Um, and I still didn't, but but those are three different times where as an atheist, I truly did not understand the calling that that God was putting on me. But I but it was there now when I look back.

Israel Caminero: 11:21

Yeah, you said you encountered the cross, which you liked, then the bulletproof Bible, and then your mom. Those are three major points in your life, but you still didn't search. Was there a struggle that made you start searching for the truth?

David Shapiro: 11:41

No, absolutely not. And this is the uh this is the crazy part. I um I don't have one of those stories where I wrestled with it, or where I had a dream, or where you know there was some sort of event that happened in my life. I woke up one morning and I looked at my wife, and at this point, you're talking about I'm in my 30s, and I looked at my wife and I said, I need to go to church. And she looked at me like I had three heads, and she said, You need to go where? I said, I just feel like I need to go to church. And she said, Where's this coming from? I have no idea. I woke up that morning with this overwhelming sensation that I just needed to go to a church. I didn't know anything about it, I still had no idea about Christianity. Uh, Jesus Christ, Jesus was his first name, Christ was his last name. That's this is what I knew. Um, I knew as little as you possibly could. And I just at that point Googled where the closest church was to my house, and I found a church, and I went. And when I stepped in, I I felt very uncomfortable. I was a Jewish man growing up, I became an atheist. At this point, I'm covered in tattoos. That's that's a story I'll tell in a moment why I was covered in tattoos. But I'm I'm covered in tattoos, I'm just feeling very overwhelmed by where I am. As so I decided to sit in the back of the room and try not to be noticed. And the pastor started to talk, and the first thing out of his mouth was talking about a heavenly father that loves you. And coming from a past with an abusive father, I just stopped and I get and I said, What do you mean there's a father that loves me? And I'm listening to this, and I don't remember, I had to have been breathing because I'm alive. I don't remember taking a breath. All I remember is it was me and that pastor in that room. Everybody else went away, and I was listening to his every word about this father in heaven and all that he did for me and the love that he has for me. And I remember just feeling incredibly moved. And when I stepped outside of that church room, the auditorium, a different pastor came up to me and said, Hi, you know, I notice you're new. Have you ever had a Bible? And I told him I had one, I never read one. So he put a Bible in my hand, he prayed for me, and he said, I'd love to see you next week. Why don't you start with one of the gospels, just one of them, and we'll talk about it next week. And I left. And the the second miracle is I was raised and I was born and raised dyslexic. I failed out of school, I failed out of college three different times that I tried. I do not have the ability to learn. And I spent that week reading the Bible, and I came back the next week and he said, Well, what'd you think? And I said, I loved it. He goes, What'd you read? And I said, The Bible. And he said, The entire thing. And I said, Yes. I actually took off from work and I read the entire Bible. And then that month I read it three other times. And it's a God thing because words don't work like that for me.

Israel Caminero: 14:57

Right.

David Shapiro: 14:58

To be able to read and comprehend what I was reading that quickly was a God thing. So I um I it just it was overwhelming. And I decided, I said, look, I I need to know more about this. I enrolled back in a school, I went to seminary, I got my bachelor's, then I got my master's. I actually this year just got my doctorate. I mean, you want to talk about a God thing. He took this dyslexic Orthodox Jewish kid from New York, um, and and now where I am is so incredible the journey that he's brought me through. And I am beyond blessed at what he has done. He has definitely shown off in my life.

Israel Caminero: 15:42

Hey, man. Seems that way. This was a night and day thing, right? You you didn't have uh a moment, a book, or even a person that opened your eyes to Jesus the night before, before you decided to go to church that day.

David Shapiro: 15:56

Nothing. This was Jesus literally just putting this conviction, I mean, so strongly on my heart that there was nothing that would have stopped me at that moment. When I woke up that morning and said I needed to go to church, I was going. And and knowing who I was and my personality, I'm a completely changed person now. Back then, I would have never gone. There is no way I would have ever stepped foot inside. And for me to have such a strong conviction that nothing would have stopped me truly was Jesus just going, I'm gonna convict this guy right now, at this moment. And that was it. That was my calling, and I followed.

Israel Caminero: 16:35

Amen. So, what did surrender look like for you after years of skepticism?

David Shapiro: 16:42

Uh, it was brutal. Uh so I I went through a few things through my beginning stages of learning about Christianity. Um, the the belief in Jesus Christ came very easy to me. For me, reading the New Testament was reading the the second part of uh a sequel that you're going, hey, I I know about this first part forever. I've I read about it, I learned about it, and now I guess I actually watch the sequel and I learned how this goes and how this ends. And it was such a wonderful way for me to complete what was going on in my head. So the belief in Jesus was the easy part. In order to become a Christian, to become more like Christ, that became very difficult. Things like forgiveness became incredibly hard for me. I I looked through my life and trying to figure out how I was going to forgive somebody like my father for what he did. Um, and forgiveness of myself, learning to love myself as a creation of God and not look at myself in a horrible way. Uh, these were things that I had to go through that I struggled with. Um, I I mentioned my tattoos before, you know, growing up, because I grew up dyslexic, because I grew up not feeling like I belonged, I always had this self-doubt and self-esteem issue. And I didn't want people to look at me. So I started getting tattoos, and the tattoos were to cover myself up. And if you were to look at me, you were gonna look at a tattoo and not me. And it became an obsession. I got more and more and more because I needed to cover myself up as much as possible to hide who I was. And through Christ, I now I still love my tattoos. This is a part of my journey, a part of my life, but I don't need them anymore. I I'm I am wonderfully made by God and I feel it. I'm loving who I am and and not in an egotistical way. You know, God did a great job in creating me, and I can be proud of what He did through me. And uh I don't need my tattoos anymore, they've now just become part of my story. Um, so that was something that I really had to work through and and and grind through. Uh forgiveness came much, much later on. Forgiveness was something that I joked about as a beginning Christian. I I said, well, uh everyone said, Look, Jesus forgave while he was hanging on the cross. He forgave those that were beating him. You know, you need to be able to forgive. And I'm going, well, that just means I'm not him because I can't forgive. And I made jokes about it because I just wasn't willing or able to look at the things that my father had done to me, and I wasn't prepared to forgive at that moment. And it it took a long time and a lot of conviction and a lot of conversations with different people for me to be able to get to that point where forgiveness became uh doable, never easy, but became accessible.

Israel Caminero: 19:43

So, being that you went from being a Jew to Christianity, how did your family or community react when you told them about your faith in Jesus?

David Shapiro: 19:53

I lost most of them. So I had posted a picture of me during my baptism and I had My aunt called me at one point and she said, Hey, I saw a picture. Is that you being baptized? And I said, Yes. And she said, Yeah, we don't do that. And then hung up my hung up the phone and I haven't spoken to her since. Uh, there are quite a few members of my family and my friends growing up that no longer uh interact with me, but I have this incredible new group of people that are truly family, that are my brothers and my sisters that uh, you know, I I have really taken me in, and they're my family. And I do still have a few family members that uh I still do talk to as well. And uh my brother actually married the daughter of a Baptist minister, and he he is a Christian now, and him and I uh have a great relationship. But uh for the remainder of my family, yeah, they they just decided that I was not going to be uh part of what they were.

Israel Caminero: 20:52

As a man of Christ now, have you ever tried picking up the phone and reconciling with them?

David Shapiro: 20:58

I have multiple times. Uh what's interesting is some of the more religious people, one of them who lives in Israel, uh, they have had good conversation with. It's it's actually the family members that in my mind are more of the Pharisees. They play like they are religious, but I don't think they really understand uh truly what Judaism is. These are the family members that I've not been able to reconcile with. Uh and uh that's okay. That's that's their path. And uh I I do believe that reconciliation is still possible. Uh but honestly, what I pray for more now than more than reconciliation is for them to find Christ.

Israel Caminero: 21:36

Amen. So you said you graduated from college, right? And uh you got your doctorate and I did.

David Shapiro: 21:44

So I got my my bachelor's in biblical studies with a concentration in Christian counseling. I got my master's degree in biblical archaeology, and then I got my uh doctorate in religious education, and I fell in love with the world of apologetics. I fell in love with connecting everything that I would have just disputed as a young adult and a child from science to actually understanding what it truly is and being able to put them together. Um, one of the things also is, you know, I was a professional fighter uh and I was in the military and I trained in martial arts. And one of the things that I used to hear people say, when, especially as adults, is hey, when I was young, I used to take martial arts. When I became a Christian, I heard a lot of people saying the same thing. They're like, hey, when I when I was younger, I used to go to church, and I wasn't sure why that stopped for some people, but I knew that finally feeling what it was to have Christ in my life, I was terrified of losing him. I didn't want to get to the point where emotionally something would happen in my life and I would drop him. And I decided to sharpen my brain. And what I felt was if my heart is running a little bit low at a moment, my brain would kick in to know that he is God, to know that these things are factual and true and logical. And then when my heart comes back up, uh then I get to, you know, have that take over again. Uh, but I'll tell you now, it's been about 12 years, and my heart's more on fire now than it's ever been. Okay, it's never gone down. It's it's just stronger and stronger.

Israel Caminero: 23:21

Amen. And you're using all this to help others see the truth of the gospel. How did that calling begin?

David Shapiro: 23:26

I think that calling began with having conversations with people that uh were old friends, old colleagues of mine, didn't understand what was going on with me. I was in school, I was learning a lot. Uh, I remember, you know, I was having debates with people when uh even believers, I was having debates with believers, and the more I spoke to people, the more I realized that I wanted to be part of the the teaching side. I wanted to understand how to how to portray what I'm feeling better to somebody. And I've come full circle because I remember in the very beginning, I went to school and I was using everything that I learned at school, and I was learning every single apologetics. You know, I I would have somebody ask me, well, why does why do bad things happen to good people? And I went into the apologetics of why evil things happen. And I talked about, you know, who God is and and our free will and you know all the different things that you'd want an apologist to say. And I was very good at it, and I never really planted a seed with anybody just by debating them. And then I've come full circle because what I've realized is that I wouldn't have accepted Christ that way either. It was it was a relationship and an emotional moment that I needed to have with him, and I recognize that my testimony, even that, which I share with people, it's still only mine. What I encourage people to do is have their own relationship with Christ. I want people to you know understand who Christ is to them. And the way I the way I kind of uh explain it is if you have a colleague who becomes a friend, and then a friend who becomes a brother, what changes? What makes that friend into a brother? And a lot of people I've asked that to, they said, Well, we've been through things together, and it's the relationship that we have, and they accept me, they know me really well, and they still accept me through all the bad things that I've done or said, or whatever it is, and you go on and on and on, or if you're in the military, it's hey, you're in the same foxhole together, fearing for the same things, and and you're always there to protect each other. And that what's that's what brings a friend to a brother. And then I look at God, I go, Well, when does God become father? When does the faraway God that people put him as become your father who's relationally close? And it's the same answer. It's when you have a relationship with him, when he's uh going through life with you, when you understand that he's right next to you and not far away, when you're sharing a moment with God, when you're praying and crying out to him, when you're feeling his presence around you, this is relational. This is when you realize he's never gonna leave you, no matter what you do, no matter how many mistakes you make, he's never gonna leave you. And then all of a sudden, God becomes father. And all of a sudden, it was no longer I need to logically explain about God, or I need to tell people what I feel. I just need to let them know who God is and let them experience for themselves because once they experience God, there's nothing that I'm gonna be able to say that's gonna match that feeling that God can put in somebody's heart.

Israel Caminero: 26:52

That's right. You're absolutely right. You know, a lot of people don't want to have a relationship with Christ, they just go to church and check it off. Like I went to church, I like you said earlier, they do good deeds and they think they're a good person, and that's not what it's all about. It's about that relationship that you have with him that brings you closer to him and you can feel him, and he answers all your prayers in his timing. His timing.

David Shapiro: 27:20

100%.

Israel Caminero: 27:21

And people go ahead.

David Shapiro: 27:24

No, no, no, and and and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, I think people are they want to be in control, and I get it. And even the strongest believers have moments where they they feel unsteady, and and I'm going, that's that's fine, that's part of the testing. You know, when Peter steps out of the boat and starts walking on water to Jesus, once he's focused on Christ, he's walking on water. The moment he takes his focus off of Christ, he looks at the wind, doubts, and starts to sink. And that's all of us. We just need to keep our focus on Christ and and we can do incredible things with our lives.

Israel Caminero: 28:10

Amen. That's true. So when you look back at your journey as far as where you came from and where you're at now, what's one thing about Jesus that still amazes you the most?

David Shapiro: 28:24

Um probably the most amazing, I think most people would say this is the fact that, you know, he wants me as part of his family. Uh, you know, I am I am really, as much as I try to be a good person, I realize that in the scheme of things, uh, man, am I sinful? And the fact that he still loves me and wants me as part of his family is amazing. Uh, I think that that amazes me constantly. I also think that being somebody who does love apologetics, to really research these things and go, listen, these things really happened. There's archaeological proof, there's historical proof. There, there are so many things that are pointing towards Jesus as the truth. I think what's more amazing is God could have done this in any other way. He could have taken away all archaeology, he could have left it, he could have not created science, he could have done whatever he wanted to do. And what he did was allow us the free will to be able to discover him in such a wonderful way. Um, I had somebody, you know, somebody who loves archaeology, had somebody ask me, you know, hey, everyone's looking for the Ark of the Covenant, they haven't found it. Do you think it even exists? Uh for anybody who doesn't know what the Ark of the Covenant is, this is the Ark that was supposed to be in the tent, the tabernacle. Um, and this held the jar of manna and the staff uh of Aaron and the Ten Commandments, and this was the source of God's power and his throne chair and all that. Um, and everybody has looked for it for thousands of years and nobody can find it. And what I say all the time is I believe God took it away. We don't need it anymore. And the reason we don't need it anymore is because God can dwell inside of us. He doesn't need a box anymore. He dwells inside directly with us. We took it away, he no longer needs it. Now, if we find it somewhere down the line, as someone who loves biblical archaeology, I would be, I mean, just head over heels. But I am amazed at what God has done throughout the ages so we can piece together everything that we've ever found, every doubt we've ever had, and go, wow, this really did happen. He really did exist. All of this is truth. And I think finding that out, because people even read biblical stories and they're like, This can't be true. This reads like a Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter type book. I'm like, no, if you look into it, a lot of these things have already been proven they really did exist.

Israel Caminero: 30:56

That's right. There's actually a movie and a book about uh the pursuit of happiness, that's what it's called. About him trying to disprove God's existence. I don't know if you've you're familiar with that. I am, and uh that just goes to show that he was trying to find every solution of why God didn't exist, and he couldn't find it.

David Shapiro: 31:21

Yep, it does not exist. I have I've done similar, I've done a lot of studying. Uh, I actually have a book coming out, uh it should be coming out early 2026. Uh it's being published by Elk Lakes, and uh, I have another book coming out later that same year, uh, but my first book is an apologetics book, and it is all the different proofs of Jesus and the Bible and God and the stories in the Bible. Uh, and it also comes, so there are books that exist in apologetics world for this, but mine comes from a more Jewish perspective. Uh, so it's a really interesting book of research from an ex-Jew uh looking at the life of Jesus in the Bible and just finding all the incredible truths that that exist within it.

Israel Caminero: 32:06

As far as you mentioning the ark earlier, I'm sure a lot of people would um argue with you that Indiana Jones found it.

David Shapiro: 32:14

Yes. They they might, they might. If anyone's gonna find it, I'd rather be him.

Israel Caminero: 32:20

Yeah. You're you're you just mentioned your book. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? You said it's it's not out yet, but it's coming out. You can go ahead and plug your book and let us know more about it.

David Shapiro: 32:30

It's yep, it's called Jesus Christ. That's a lot of evidence. And it's an apologetics book, and I think it's going to really change the uh landscape of apologetics books, where it has some information that you find in other ones. But like I said, this one is coming from a very Jewish perspective, uh, looking at things a little bit differently, combining some uh Old Testament stories with uh with God and and Jesus and showing him within those scriptures as well. Not just it's not just the God of the the New Testament. Uh so I think for anybody who has curiosity about uh the Old Testament and Judaism and uh the proof of the Bible in that perspective, I think it'll be great. And then later the year, in the year, I have a book coming out called uh The Pharisee I Didn't See. And this is it's about me, but it's about everybody. And this is the these are the mistakes that we make when we become Christians to follow religion rather than Christ. Uh and it's some of the pitfalls that we all kind of fall into. And uh, you know, it could be, hey, you walk into a church and the worship music's playing, and you're like, oh, I don't really like this song. It's like that's great. That song's not for you, it's for it's for God. We're worshiping him. Um, it could be little moments like that where you go, man, I just caught myself that that you know it's not about worshiping me and singing to me and the things I like, it's about God and what he likes. Uh, so it's a really great book on legalism and just focusing on some of the mistakes that we make as Christians following a religion versus following Christ. Um, so both those books are coming out in 2026. I I definitely, you know, I mean, obviously I'm the author, so I recommend getting them. But I think they're gonna be really great books for the landscape of people who are questioning faith, getting into faith and wanting to learn more. And also it's gonna challenge those that feel like they're hey, I'm in faith. I have all the faith I need, I understand everything. You're still gonna learn some new things you've never learned before.

Israel Caminero: 34:33

Amen. And I'll have links to those books on the description of this podcast and anything else that he shares here in case you want to connect with him. You said you had a podcast earlier, too. Can you tell us what inspired it and what kind of conversations you have on there?

David Shapiro: 34:49

Absolutely. So the podcast got lived out of from a men's group that I run. There are two gentlemen that come to that men's group, and we are three very different people. Obviously, me coming to Christ through my journey that you just learned about. Uh, another gentleman was born in a Christian household, uh, was going to become a pastor, got some really bad advice, left the faith, became an atheist, and then came back a few years a few years back. And then another guy who just is faithful, has the faith of a child in all the best senses, and you have three very different people all pointing to Christ, and we talk about the stories of the Bible from three very different perspectives, and it's called the Boundless Bible, and it really is just uh a wonderful journey into three different minds looking at the same story that all point to Christ in very different ways.

Israel Caminero: 35:43

Man, again, I'll have links to that on the description of the podcast if anyone wants to go and I encourage you to go. I always try to you know help everyone that's been on here as a guest to have people go and support them and listen to the podcast. But David, I just want to ask you something. For someone that's listening right now who's struggling with doubt, maybe they want to believe but can't get there. What would you say to them?

David Shapiro: 36:09

I what I will do, and I will use somebody else from my past, and it's very funny that this will come from a rabbi. A rabbi said this years ago, and I remember this, and this is just if somebody is struggling, believing in God, and what the rabbi said is tell that person to love better and stronger. If you love everybody better, you will see God. And what I found in my life is the more love that I give, the more that I serve, the more that I do for others, the more that I see God constantly. And it sounds like a cliche, it sounds like what everybody is saying it, you know, hey, you need to give everything to God and He'll give everything back. And I, you know, I'm not saying that this is a prosperity gospel of, you know, if you give everything, he's gonna multiply it by a million. Uh, but I what I do know is that that rabbi was correct, and the more love that I give, the more that I see God all the time. It does not mean you're gonna have an easy life, it means you're gonna have a purposeful life, and that means so much more. Um, if somebody is struggling, just love others more. You will see God, He will plant those seeds in you, but you have to take steps. One of the greatest things about being raised in a uh Jewish household is you understand that Hebrew, all of the words are action words. So when you are praying, you're not just meditating quietly, you're actively praying. When you see people praying at the wailing wall, they're moving back and forth, they're shaking. It's it is an act of motion. And I think that once you take that and you start moving, you're going to see God. For those that feel like they've done that already. Hey, look, I I've I've been down the road, I've done my research, you know, it's not conclusive. I would say, where are you doing your research? Have you read the Bible itself? If you have not, you have to get into the word. Um, and then if you're going online, where are you going? Uh, you know, there are some really great sites out there. There are, if you want to learn about archaeology, yes, you can go to somebody's YouTube channel. You might get some really good information, you might get some bad information. If you go to the Israeli Antiquities Department, you're gonna get what they have. You're gonna find out what they have, and they have it, they actually have a wonderful website that chronicles the things they found. Uh, so you're going to, depending on how deep you go, man, you're gonna find some some mind-blowing things that are going to really truly show you the nature of God. It really just depends on on where your holdup is. And then the final part, and this is I had somebody once, and they were really debating me on the logic of God and why God is to them so cruel and evil. And we went back and forth and back and forth. And what I found out later is that this person had lost his wife. And it was a missed opportunity for me to do the one thing that God asked us to do because he didn't say for me to learn and debate, he asked me to love. And if I had just loved that person more, I would have not missed the opportunity to just be there for him and and give him love instead of a lecture. And I think that that is all, you know, it's everything that I live by now. It's it's in my love and my testimony that I try to talk to people about God and and the logic becomes something that is secondary.

Israel Caminero: 39:49

That's good. Sometimes we miss that mark, you know, when we try to talk to people, and sometimes we miss what they're actually going through just over in our not in our Argument, but a debate. Yep. But David, I ha I know you've read the Bible, the whole Bible more than once, and I have a question. When you read that Bible, was there a life or a verse, a life verse or a Bible verse that stuck with you since you read it that you can go back to when you're having a bad day? And what's that Bible verse and what does it mean to you?

David Shapiro: 40:30

I will tell you that uh there's probably more than one. But what's that is? But but the verse that really stuck out to me is Isaiah 53. And when I think of Isaiah 53, especially if you start to look at Isaiah 53, 5, uh, but he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed. And that is when you are an Orthodox Jewish person, I can't explain this enough to people, you're not taught about Christ. And what's furthermore is nobody owns to get a Torah, to get an actual, and I was raised in an Ashkenazi temple, you're talking about it's about a $20,000 to $40,000 purchase. So you don't own one in your home. You own prayer books, you don't own a Torah. So you are listening to a rabbi reading it every week. I don't recall, and I've talked to a lot of Jewish friends of mine, Isaiah 53 was never even read in temple. So when I read that for the first time, going, wait a minute, this is in the Old Testament. This is pointing right to Jesus and talking about how we're healed through him. And man, when I tell you that that blew the doors open, that was the the verse that sticks with me for the rest of my life. It is all about who Jesus is and what he did. And I tell you, for anything, if I have any moment in my life, I read that and I remember the the Lord of Lords who did this for me. That's it.

Israel Caminero: 42:12

Okay, man. That's a good one. I never knew that that wasn't mentioned in the Torah. I mean, personally, I haven't read the Torah myself.

David Shapiro: 42:24

I don't remember it. And I like I said, I've asked a lot of people uh if they remember a lot of my friends, and not one of them, when I read them that they go, No, that's not part of it. I'm going, no, it is. And it is incredible. Uh, like I said, it's not uh, no, this didn't happen, don't look. It's just not ever mentioned.

Israel Caminero: 42:43

Like I said, I never knew that, but I've never read the Torah, so you know I I can't say if it was or wasn't. But now we're going to my back to the past section of the podcast. And what my back to the past section is, is if the David of today can travel back and talk to the younger David before he was saved or anything like that, what would you say to him knowing what you know now?

David Shapiro: 43:09

Oh boy. Um, I will tell you that at that moment there was nothing that I could have said that would have changed my mind on God, but that younger David, I think, would have really appreciated somebody older just being there for him, just giving him a hug and saying, You are enough. You are good enough, you're enough. And that is something that has been echoed by by Jesus by going, if I'm enough, if I'm good enough for Jesus to give his life, man, you know, I I'm I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, but I think the Mona Lisa is worth like a hundred million dollars or more than that. And I think about that painting and I go, I'm not particularly a fan of it. I definitely wouldn't pay $100 million for it. I probably wouldn't even pay a $15 Amazon recreation of it. Um, but I know I wouldn't give my life for a painting or for a masterpiece. And here God paid his life for the masterpiece he made and made. And again, I don't say that of ego for me. I say that for what God made. And just to go back to that person and say, you are enough, you have purpose, you're loved, you are enough. I I don't know what that would have done for me, but I know that it was something I desperately needed to hear. And I'm so incredibly blessed that God feels that way about me. That um, yeah, I think I think the older me going to the younger me, that probably would have been the biggest impactful statement that I I would have heard. And like you said, you might have not listened, but no, I was, you know, hot-headed and I was a military guy and a fighter, and I thought I knew everything. I, you know, I we're young. Yeah, I'm young, I can conquer the world. Right. Um, but but to hear somebody older just, you know, sometimes, and I I remember that when I work with the youth and young adults, is they what I feel their problems are not that big, to them, it's massive. And I have to put myself at their level and go, this is somebody who's really hurting on their level, and I'm here for you on your level because that's what God does for us. He doesn't look at us and go, this doesn't matter. This isn't no, God weeps for us and loves us right where we are. And I just think it's such a great lesson for me. And I think that although I might not have listened to it, it would have been a huge impact because that's what we're called to do. I it goes, it all goes back to loving. You just have to love people more, love God and love people, and those are the two greatest commandments.

Israel Caminero: 45:52

That's right. Well, David, I just want to say thank you for sharing your journey with us today. You know, it's such a powerful reminder that no one is too far gone for God's grace. For anyone listening, maybe you've walked away, maybe you've had doubts, or maybe you're just searching. But know this Jesus isn't afraid of your questions. He'll meet you right where you are, and when you truly seek him, you'll find him. David, before we wrap up, do you think you could pray over us?

David Shapiro: 46:22

Absolutely. So the uh what's interesting is when I pray, I I'm a very quick prayer. I I don't pray very long. Um, what I tell people is that God just wants to hear your voice. He just wants to hear you and your and the way he made you pray. Um, so for anybody who feels like they don't are they don't have the comfort praying, just talk to God. That's right. So, Heavenly Father, thank you for this time we've shared and for the moments that we've been given. Uh, as we go our separate ways, let your peace go before us. Uh, just you know, your love stay within us and your hand guide us in all we do. Remember that the goodbyes are never an end to those that walk away because we're all in Christ together. Um, I just hope you keep us faithful, keep us humble, and keep us near to your heart. And and I I look forward to the time when I get to meet uh all these listeners and all the people who are questioning you um in your kingdom when they finally believe. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Israel Caminero: 47:29

Amen. Amen. Thank you for that prayer. Like I said, I'll have links on the description of this podcast to everything he shared. If anyone wants to go and connect with David and read the books, uh listen to his podcast, I suggest that you go and support him. Like I said, every guest that I have on here, I ask my listeners to go and support. And I just want to say to my podcast family, thank you so much for listening to Living Testimonies. If this episode encouraged you, share it with someone who needs hope. If you enjoyed today's testimony, why don't you share it with someone who might need to hear it? You never know what someone could be going through, and it might just be you that changes their life because they heard this podcast. Remember, it's his story, but it's for his glory. Until next time, stay rooted, stay faithful, and keep walking with Jesus. God bless you.